A different look at moving baits and lures

[olsmelly]

Years ago I fished pretty much exclusively for Trout. It is fair to say that over the years I have caught more fish on a moving bait/lure than static baits.

As a result, I took a great interest in how a fish might regard what we hope they might consider their next meal.

My first experiment involved a small shoal of Trout in a clear mountain pool. I could see them quite clearly, as they could also see me........ which was always going to cause a problem. However, I quickly found that they quickly ignored me, as long as I did not move to quickly, or too far. The next problem was would they take my spinner.

The conventional cast and retrieve elicited no response. Then I tried to jig the lure in front of the trout, which seemed to be most interested........ no go...........

Eventually I cast my lure just in front of the fish and lit up a fag (I smoked back then). After I'd finish with the weed, I started the retrieve. BINGO! within a couple of inches' movement of the lure, the fish took it!

The disturbance in the pool, due to the struggling trout dispersed the rest of the shoal, which gave me time to unhook the prize and cast into the pool again. The shoal took only about 5 minutes to reassemble as if nothing had happened. I retrieved again and caught another one. This went on until I'd fished the pool out of trout.

Now you might think that a bit piratical, but I'd set up a holding tank (a bloody great placky bag) and returned them after I'd finished.

From then on, I have always allowed my lure to sink and settle for a couple of minutes, before retrieval. It works, but there are problems with the lure catching the world!........ which makes things a bit problematic around rough bottoms.........

Another experience involved my kids. At the seaside, they'd try to catch those little biddleheads in the rock pools with their nets. I'd lie beside them and drop in bits of bread, to attract them. Using a very light line and a size 18 hook, I tried to entice these hunger tiddlers to take the hook........... and failed every time!

When I looked at the problem in depth, it was obvious that fish are not that stupid. They know when a piece of bread is floating down naturally and when it is weighted by something naughty. My next experiment was to add a small sliver of balsa wood to the hook, along with the bread. That worked. The slowing down of the descent of the bait was enough to fool the tiddlers.

Despite my kids' protestations, we did not take the tiddlers home to my aquarium!
;D

However I got to thinking about those trout on difficult days.

Now we all know that rainy days tend to make fly fishing a bit iffy. Likewise, so can spinning become problematic. This also tends to happen during cold snaps.

Reading up on the problem (Aberdeen Uni) I discovered that a lower surface temperature drives a fish to seek food at lower levels. However, big fish are of a similar mind to tiddlers and are suspicious of fast sinking baits and lures. Meanwhile, a fly on the surface tends to be ignored. After all, the fish knows that sensible bugs will be tucked up in bed on chilly days!....... but nematodes........

This was when I thought of the "detachable weight". Silly! You say? Well no.

So! with a kid's 7ft solid glass rod in hand, I set off with a No.6 hook and little else....... well, actually I went down to a size 8.......

Turning over stones, loch-side, I quickly found a decent Nematode, which I impaled on my hook. I then picked up a small elongated pebble, which I tied to the line in front of the hook with a clove hitch.

Now, as you will all be aware, mono and clove hitches come undone PDQ, after hitting the water....... which is what you want........ This leaves the nematode and hook to slowly sink to the bottom........ and guess what!

Yep! The fish luvvit!....... and surrender (as my mate put it).

It works in the Oggin as well! I know I've been using the technique for around 40 years now!

[maninblack]

Very interesting !!!!

[olsmelly]

These ideas are not off the top of my head. They actually do reflect reality. The consequence is that I have often made my own cross-over lures, using baits for spinning.

The Stuart Tackle is a proven cross-over bait/lure. Unfortunately, among the fly fishing set it has become something of an insult, to refer to users as "bubble floaters". I can understand why. After all, fly fishing is a highly skilled sport........... or is it!

You will often find "fly fishermen" using baited hooks and weights, to gain an advantage! Is it cheating?....... probably not..... but not strictly kosher, I suppose.......... These people are easy to spot. Their rods display a distinct reverse bend on the back cast.

The bubble float has its own problems. The main one is that the oscillation between float and snood to the end tackle impedes the casting distance. Also the float can slap the water, driving the fish at the surface to the sea bed. That in itself is not too much of a problem, because the patient angler will let the tackle settle in the water before retrieval anyway.

My solution is to attach a balsa wood "agitator" to the front of the Stuart Tackle. I use balsa wood to slow the sinking due to the lure weight.

I start construction by weighing out 30gm of plain solder. I drill an 8mm hole in a piece of balsa stock to a depth of 15mm, along the grain. Into the centre of the hole I shove a 100mm length of 2mm brass rod...... right through, leaving sufficient to be used to form a loop at a later stage.

Now melt the solder into the hole. Cut away the balsa, freeing up the rod and weight.

Squeeze the weight flat, using a small vice. Allow the thickness of about 4mm.

Next thread the rod through the leading eye of the Stuart Tackle. Form a loop and wrap the running end of the rod around itself three times and cut off any surplus.

Next, using more spare balsa stock, test the amount required to just float the rod, weight and tackle. It is sufficient to do this in the kitchen sink with fresh water.

Now, calculate the approximate volume of balsa required. Assuming a length of 65mm, it is reasonably easy to calculate width and thickness at a ratio of 2:1. Next select two equal thicknesses of balsa, to achieve the required thickness, but one piece at least 1.5 times the width required.

Now we need a bend in the balsa. This can be done in a variety of ways. I prefer to soak the balsa lengths in ammonia and then shape. I shape the pieces together, with the diagonal corners of the wider strip aligned as closely as possible with the corresponding corners of the narrower strip. In this way the grains of the strips are diagonally crossed.

I leave the curing strips overnight to dry. I hold the bends, using rods held in a vice. The bends do not have to be too pronounced. Maybe about 3mm.

To strengthen the balsa, coat each side of the two thicknesses with modelling tissue and bond with liquid resin. Make sure the amount of resin is minimal. Once cured, the two strips can be married together and glued (resin again) around the weighted rod. Ensure a similar set of bends in the rod.

Use a bit of resin to ensure the flattened weight remains in line with the balsa wood. Then carve the outline of the balsa, to give a smooth profile.

The balsa may now be painted, or reflective self adhesive tape applied, to your preference. Dip the balsa and weight into clear dope, to seal against water ingress.

Finally take a small swivel and thread the remaining running end of brass rod though. Form a loop and wrap as per the tackle end and cut off any surplus.

A "wet" run in the sink will see the completed lure sink quite readily. However, in sea water, with a length of mackerel belly on the Stuart Tackle, the rate of sinking will be temptingly slow!

I use 4 fingers worth of fresh mackerel belly, about 6-8mm wide. In this mode, I hook it to the two in-line hooks, leaving the third free.

Since the baited lure will now be around 50gm, it is advisable to use it with a 12lb mono.

I cast and leave to settle for two or three minutes, during which time it will probably sink about 10 ft. The best time to use is about 1hr after low tide. A look along the shore will indicate where the predators are hunting. Look for the jumping shoals of fry.

Cast across the panicking shoal, trying to hit the far side of the shoal and no more. This is often within a couple of metres of the shore line. Since the water will be shallow, a quick retrieve will be necessary. If the shoal is in deeper water the retrieve is better delayed.

It may take some practice but it is well worth the trouble!

[quest4some]

Havin fished up at loch inch and the feshie and spey a few times i will take this knowledge with me next time that is one of the best posts i have seen on any forum thank you for posting it

Kevin

[olsmelly]

Thank You! You have made my day!

You might try the techniques out at the mouth of Hillhead Haven (you ain't allowed to fish the Haven). It is, as if you didn't know, a prime spot for Sea Trout.

[thebigman]

Good to read a thinking anglers post

[DeadlyTechnique]

im starting to be a bit of a lure fishing freak

i love it ! after reading that post has made me think , wether those trout would be the same as say a BASS , leave the lure to settle for a minute or two then retrive ?

Makes Me Wonder...............

[Plug Monkey]

It definitely works. There are sooooooo many angles to lure fishing which makes it so intersting and addictive.

Bigger bass are not stupid. If you chuck a lure out and start winding back again straight away with OTT jerks, massive sweeps etc you're much more likely to attract schoolies and an aching arm. The bigger, wiser predators will often study a lure (if static) for 30-120 seconds before deciding whether to attack.

I have various forms of retrieves for various lures. I often cast out a floating shallow diver and after splash down and taking up most of the slack, I'll leave it there 20 odd seconds, then give it a gentle twitch, 5 or so turns of the handle starting slow gradually to fast, let it float back up again and then wait another 20 seconds and repeat the process right back to my feet. You'll often find attacks when the lure is floating back up to the surface.

So the original poster is definitely right imho.

Having said that you can have a £500 lure rod, a £750 reel, £500 quids worth of lures but it don't mean sh1t unless you can find the fish, no matter what techniques you use.

[wightshark]

All interesting stuff! Olsmelly, your posts are fascinating!
Anyone had a bass from the shore on the lure yet this year?

[olsmelly]

As I regain health and vitality, I am preparing to do a bit of lure fishing. At the moment I'm doing the technical bits on my mates ocean racer; repairing his electronics loom.

However, in the evening I am designing and making a floating lure, which will dive on retrieve.

Fish in distress tend to float on the surface, head downward. They then try to dive, but run out of steam and float back to the surface ........ that got me thinking.

A floating lure can be made to float float vertically, by front loading the weight and rear loading the buoyancy.

For buoyancy I am using Balsa Wood and for weight I'm using plumber's soldering wire. That is thick solder wire without a flux core......... nice and non-toxic.

I started with an experimental unweighted body, to get some idea of body weight. A 2" x 1/2" Balsa body, with piano wire insert, weighs just on 1gram.

Therefore I reckon my 5" lure body will weigh about 3g, with the rear waggler (more of that later). The two trebles will weigh about another 5grams, so I reckoned on using about 10 grams of solder as the head weight.

I then measured out 10 grams of solder, using Maw's electronic kitchen scales (v. accurate)......... no problem there, because the solder is non-toxic. Meanwhile I had a plastic meat tray (one of those joint containers from ASDA) which I filled with wall plaster (scrapped from some previous plastering in the bedroom).

I started by carving out an estimated mould in the plaster, sufficient to take the solder. Then I melted the solder into the mould. Since it was not quite right, I did some adjustment, like cutting a mould with a wedge nose, which is approximately 2" long. Into this I inserted a length of 18 swg piano wire, formed to make a "U", with a flattened bend. The former was my long nosed pliers, which give a convenient width to the bend.

One side of the "U" is about an inch long, whilst the other is about 3 1/2". Once the whole solder/wire mould was completed, I had a 2" weight with just over and inch of wire protruding from the bottom of the wedge and a flat loop at the rear, about 1/8" deep. The flat loop will support the centre section of the lure, allowing it to swing from side to side. It will also take the small split ring, supporting the forward treble.

Next I sanded the weight with very coarse sandpaper to provide flat keyed surfaces for gluing.

The weight was then enclosed in 4mm sheet balsa, to the top and sides. The whole lot was glued with Balsa Cement, clamped in a vice and left for a couple of days to cure.

I then smoothed and shaped the whole thing, using fine sandpaper. The result is a flat wedge nosed shape, reminiscent of the front end of an airline fuselage. It has tapering sides and top. The shape is really up to whoever makes it.

I also made the balsa cover slightly long, so the rear wire loop is enclosed in a fairing, to improve streamlining.

The next stage is to construct a floatation body, about 2" x 1/2", from 4mm Balsa. The two sides will be glued around a similar piano wire loop to the one encased in the weighted forward section. However this one will have equal sides, to be looped around the loop in the weighted section. Obviously it will be shaped.

The rear end loop will take the waggler. The waggler will be a 3-4" broad elastic band, á la my rubber band "feathers", described elsewhere on these boards. The band will be cut at one of the loop bends (the bands are formed to lie flat, when unused, with sharply curved ends). It is important to cut across the sharp bend, to ensure it flaps when drawn through water.

Then the elastic band will be threaded through the rear wire loop and secured, inside-out, using a couple of "invisible thread" sewn loops. I recommend invisible thread because it is rot proof and very strong (maybe you girlfriend/boyfriend/partner/wife might do this). The final security will be a drop of superglue on the thread.

You must make sure that the trailing ends of the band are pointing outward.

The second treble can be mounted to the rear loop in the same manner as the forward treble.

The whole things will be quite substantial and should be (I hope) daunting to schoolies, but attractive to big 'uns.

Colouring: I am going to paint the bottom of mine with matt white. I shall leave the rest of the body natural. The wedge will be painted red (just to make it look more professional). Then the whole thing will be coated in a couple of coats of clear dope. I use modelling dope, but you could just as well use rod dope, available from most tackle shops.


The theory!

When cast, the lure will hang more or less vertically under the surface. It may sink slowly.

The colour will resemble a distressed Pouting Fry, which is what we see in the Solent.

Using short swift retrieve cycles, the lure should dive in a more or less parabolic track, which is what injured fish do. When the drag is released, it will float back to the surface, like an injured fish.

The outward turning elastic will flap together under drag, causing a sibilant click under water........ which is also characteristic of a distressed fish..........

The only consideration then, is where to mount the magnetic bead!


:fishing-smile:

[olsmelly]

Addenda to my posting above:

1: The comparative volumes of solder to balsa is about 1:3

2. The rear flotation section of the lure needs soft malleable wire (approx 1mm dia) not 18 swg piano wire, else it is too difficult to wrap and secure to the front end of the lure. The wire I am using is a medium-soft ferrous alloy wire with a bs in the region of 100lbs.

[Plug Monkey]

May 6, 2010 16:26:05 GMT wightshark said:

All interesting stuff! Olsmelly, your posts are fascinating!
Anyone had a bass from the shore on the lure yet this year?

yes mate i had my first bass about 5 weeks ago on the surface on a zclaw plug near to Totland. Ain't had a sniff since.

Got a week of eaterlies coming up now so I'm not hoping for much this week either

[olsmelly]

Yeah! I don't bother when there are Easterlies either. I seems to apply to all fishing, freshwater as well.

A thing you might like to consider is the activity of sea birds. I follow the fry by casting a look along the coastline, to see if sea birds, especially Terns, are feeding on the surface. There is a marked difference between birds diving for Joeys and them dipping for smaller stuff.

Once I know where the fry are most likely lying, it does shorten the hunting process. The next thing, of course, is to get there while there is activity. Larger seabirds frighten the Bass deeper. Terns don't seem to bother 'em. I suppose they know that Terns are too small to be a nuisance, other than competing for lunch.

[olsmelly]

Update on prototype

It failed the flotation test! I forgot all the added weight of the trebles and supporting metalwork. Maw was quite amused at the alternative use of the bath.............
;D

However, I expected there to be issues, which is why I do static tests before making the field model.

The technical issues lie in using piano wire. I forgot that extreme heat, from immersion in hot solder makes it brittle. So there are several build issues.

First: The solder weight needs to be much lighter; about half the initial design estimate.

Second: I shall be using soft steel instead of piano wire. This is much more malleable (and v. cheap). I shall be grinding grooves along the top and bottom edges of the weight block, to receive the wire. The mould will be made before attaching the wire; cold, using balsa cement.

Third: I will reverse the loop and grip system for connecting the frames. The frame will be made and assembled before body assembly. This will make for a "prettier" lure. The front frame will be doubled and twisted to hold the front swivel (obviously the swivel will be threaded on beforehand! ........ well....... people do forget!)

The rear grips of the front section will be four wraps of wire; top and bottom to centre. (wrap the sockets around a toothpick, to form.

The rear section forward loop will be threaded through the front section sockets and receive the 5mm split rings for the treble. The rear loop will be doubled wire; soldered for security. This will receive the rear treble split ring and the rubber waggler. (I think I'll trial a twisted rear loop...... depends on strength really)

Fourth: The rear treble will be embedded in and supported by staples in the rubber waggler. I shall be reducing treble size to No. 1 or 2. The 1/0s look a bit ungainly.

Maw was impressed by the test cast (about 50m) without hooks and over grass. That means the weight can be significantly reduced, as I envisage using it up to 20m max.

The shape (to me) resembles a 747 fuselage in miniature, with an attractive flowing tail, rather Guppy-like. Test drags in the bath indicate significant lifelike lateral waggle. The whole prototype swims "right" so to speak.

Bass are being caught at Gilkicker and Browndown, in small numbers, but size has not been reported. I guess they are probably schoolies. I have been keeping an eye on Dolphin Wall, from Hornet Marina and there appears to be quite a bit of activity in the water.

As the privileged few know, Dolphin Wall is a Mecca for big Bass.

The overall length of this plug will be between 5 and 7 inches; purely dependent on the length of the "guppy tail". It will LOOK the biz, even if it doesn't work!

[Plug Monkey]

May 10, 2010 7:58:56 GMT olsmelly said:

Yeah! I don't bother when there are Easterlies either. I seems to apply to all fishing, freshwater as well.

A thing you might like to consider is the activity of sea birds. I follow the fry by casting a look along the coastline, to see if sea birds, especially Terns, are feeding on the surface. There is a marked difference between birds diving for Joeys and them dipping for smaller stuff.

Once I know where the fry are most likely lying, it does shorten the hunting process. The next thing, of course, is to get there while there is activity. Larger seabirds frighten the Bass deeper. Terns don't seem to bother 'em. I suppose they know that Terns are too small to be a nuisance, other than competing for lunch.

I agree, finding the fish is the hardest and most important aspect in lure fishing. Diving terns, especially terns, are a great indicator that bass and mackerel will be present.

It's when you turn up at a mark at a specific time/tide to find no activity at all that is disheartening!

Also, don't be put off by gulls sitting on the water looking like they are having a rest. Often its because they are waiting for the baitfish to come closer to the surface again. In my experience anyway.