Emergency measure to stop pair trawling for bass

[bleth]

you've taken my quoted post out of context but not to worry

the mods do not delete posts in the manner you describe . offensive ,insulting and the like .sure.they will be deleted.
please stop suggesting I am somebody's alter ego =I ain't
oddly enough , I joined wsf when Sunny suggested I poked a stick into the bear pit . I did , and very educational it was too
there has been masses of survey data posted .I cant prove that because the entire cr@p forum has been deleted ,although it probably exists ,its not available to the plebs .
to say industrial commercial fishing is the problem is just plain nutz. they can only catch according to the quotas they have paid for . the only difference between one factory ship and 100 or so smaller vessels is economy , the same number of fish will be taken .unless of course you tell me they are operating illegally .you also need to blame successive governments who have failed to protect our fisheries.but the price of membership of the common market was the adoption of the CFP and the CAP , both of which were weighted in favour of the French . 50% of the entire UK quota is in the hands of other EU countries ,which may tell you something about how committed our own fishermen are (not)

[iknowagoodplaice]

Out of context? How can it be out of context?

Probably the survey links were mine - ignored by the masses there. I can assure you the mods do (or did) delete posts they didn't like. Collectively I found them to be a stupid and vindictive bunch, with perhaps the odd exception.

Quotas only go some way to addressing the problem. They have been too high to restore populations, which were reduced by overfishing in the first place. That is common knowledge - and pretty obvious - so you should reconsider who is "nutz". Industrial scale fishing is obviously a significant problem - unsustainable due to its ability to remove vast quantities of fish for time spent at sea.

EU policy has failed, that is true. Also some European countries have not followed the rules, that is also true. Anglers have a weak hand here. But it is "nutz" to persistently dismiss the Angling Trust, reject any attempt to collect data on sea angling, and defend commercial interests as the crazier faction on wsf has done and still does. There are a small number of sane voices there - Reg Phillips for one (if I recall correctly) - but they are outnumbered by the netters and nutters.

Of course, ultimately the people who buy and eat fish share in the blame, and that will include most of us.

[Purple]

Just for the record (I refuse to "take sides" in this)

It would seem that the mackerel have indeed buggered off into the North Atlantic in recent years, straight into the (non-EU) nets of the Icelandic and Faroe Islands fleet.

britishseafishing.co.uk/the-mackerel-wars/

Interesting reading if you have a spare ten minutes ......

Same old story I'm afraid, with the non-EU commercials taking advantage over the more restricted EU fleets.

Right - on with the show ........

[danglinglad2]

Cheers for that mackerel wars link Purple a very interesting read indeed .

[bleth]

hi iknowetc.
at least your last reply was reasoned ,so that's an improvement . you are of course entitled to your personal opinion regarding wsf mods . that is somewhat different to making accusations .
Quotas are the problem ,as are discards .when both are reduced to sustainable levels , things will improve ,although it is probably true to say the total biomass in the N.Sea and the channel is higher than it has been for at least 20 years . it is difficult to draw definite conclusions , as ICES has admitted , but there is pretty good evidence to suggest that is true .
collecting accurate data on stocks is something I ,and others have been campaigning for , and the bream tagging on the Kingmere was due , at least in part to that .Getting relevant info as to what has come to light as a result has been difficult , as the IFCA don't want to talk about it for some reason . I do have the relevant info , but it was given in a private conversation , so I will not repeat it , the info is out there ,but it is fragmented . it has not been collated for public consumption as yet .
I didn't mention the AT , but since you have ,I will make a couple of comments .
they say they represent all anglers -they don't . the RSA membership is pitiful
they have nobody within the org. with responsibility for sea angling -yet they expect us to take them seriously .
they are a company that reports to company's house . their first loyalty is to the balance sheet
they have alliances with orgs. that are anti angling
2/3 of their revenue comes from DEFRA & NE -he who pays the piper.................
they offered up a 1 fish take in the recent and continuing bass dialogue not the most sensible starting point for an org. that alledgedly represents angling

Reg , I know personally . he does a thankless job with little support , and has my respect for doing so

[iknowagoodplaice]

All my posts are reasoned so don't patronise me. Like I've said, look to your own posts instead of following the wsf trade.

Whatever you wish to call the problem, the seas have been overfished for years, that is not in doubt. Cod stocks have improved but are still considered in a poor state (except by commercials) - less than half the level to prevent collapse. Quotas are not the whole story - by-catch is a problem too.

You did mention the AT, on another thread. No one has specific responsibility for any branch of angling as far as I'm aware. I also don't know where your funding claim comes from. They get nothing from DEFRA. The bulk of AT's income is from subscriptions, competitions and the EA with a smattering from donations, etc. Your dislike of the AT is irrational, maybe a symptom of too much time on wsf, also a company as I've said before. What is it about AT being registered as a company that bothers you?

Your other points are too muddled to address.

[iknowagoodplaice]

Jan 17, 2015 11:00:34 GMT Purple said:

Just for the record (I refuse to "take sides" in this)

It would seem that the mackerel have indeed buggered off into the North Atlantic in recent years, straight into the (non-EU) nets of the Icelandic and Faroe Islands fleet.

britishseafishing.co.uk/the-mackerel-wars/

Interesting reading if you have a spare ten minutes ......

Same old story I'm afraid, with the non-EU commercials taking advantage over the more restricted EU fleets.

Right - on with the show ........

There are a lot of fence-sitters in fishing.

Does anyone know who or what runs this BSF website? Seems a bit of a mix. Is it just an individual's blog?

[bleth]

Jan 17, 2015 22:26:27 GMT iknowagoodplaice said:

All my posts are reasoned so don't patronise me. Like I've said, look to your own posts instead of following the wsf trade.

Whatever you wish to call the problem, the seas have been overfished for years, that is not in doubt. Cod stocks have improved but are still considered in a poor state (except by commercials) - less than half the level to prevent collapse. Quotas are not the whole story - by-catch is a problem too.

You did mention the AT, on another thread. No one has specific responsibility for any branch of angling as far as I'm aware. I also don't know where your funding claim comes from. They get nothing from DEFRA. The bulk of AT's income is from subscriptions, competitions and the EA with a smattering from donations, etc. Your dislike of the AT is irrational, maybe a symptom of too much time on wsf, also a company as I've said before. What is it about AT being registered as a company that bothers you?

Your other points are too muddled to address.

now who is being patronising ?

nothing muddled about my post

I have no problem with AT being a company . my problem is that it is funded to the tune of £1.1m approx. of taxpayers money .

how much time I spend on wsf or anywhere else is frankly none of your business .

oh and your pal from Rochester sends his regards

[Sunny]

I would like to suggest that the AT being a company and filing accounts is perfectly normal...as do all such bodies, including charities.
Should we be critical of the RNLI for filing accounts with companies house too ?!!

I recall AT meeting with the Prime Minister; who stated that they are the most representative body of anglers in the UK and thus would be the focal point between government and the public. Who should the government talk to ?
Which body - other than AT - carries the highest number of anglers opinion ?
We all know the answer is none. We (anglers) couldn't organise a p1$$-up-in-a-brewery; yet we all feel utterly let down by government, EU, scientists and cynically regard these so called conservation bodies as nothing more than debating societies there to preserve the interests of commercial fishing. Rightly or wrongly, that is how most anglers see them. I haven't met an angler yet that sings the praises of any of those bodies.

I turn my thoughts to stocks. If stock was doing so well we in the Solent, around the shores of the Isle of Wight, in the offshore south coast banks, in the English Channel, in the UK would be awash with catches. The simple truth is that we are not.
One small example. I can recall fishing the Needles, say 15 years ago and would be expecting at least one cod in the 25-30Lb bracket and another 6 or more in the 20+ range, per trip. I have not had a day like that in decades. What I will get is draggers cruising around me, pulling nets after the few remaining cod and feel myself lucky to catch 2 or 3 cod in a day. Some trips you will blank. Yet when I talk to old boys, who fished the Needles back in the 60s and 70s they talk of catch 15 to 20 cod per trip and getting bored with them.

In the 1920s they used to use bass as fertiliser on the fields of the Isle of Wight, they were that numerous.

The messages we hear of stock recovery and sustainability are complete lies and bear no association with a natural fish populations, nor sustainability. I cannot waste my life fighting for the futility of conservation, but totally commend and admire those that do (the likes of Reg and Leon Roskilly).

Scientists !
If you even dare(d) to mention one of the most eminent marine scientists (in the world) name on WSF you could expect to be treated like you were a friend of Jimmy Saville. Callum Roberts is a scientist, not some self-interested greed driven dragger. The analysis presented by this scientist directly conflicts with the (well paid) eloquent spokes persons for Commercial Fishing, or indeed the paid for scientists of the commercial organisations. Like the so called independent scientists who supported the tobacco industry; claiming that cigarettes did not cause cancer !

The findings of the MCO and MMO are habitually ignored.

Only Quota species receive any real interest and non-quota species are resigned to annihilation. Just one example, Flounder in Portsmouth Harbour.

I have said it before and I will say it again - without fear of slander - commercial fishing industry employ systematic illegal landing of fish stock. Just one example was the wholesale black-landings in the Shetland Islands.
If anyone is going to come after me then they better also sue the BBC !!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-17160204

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-17153085

Or perhaps the Scotsman
www.scotsman.com/news/fish-fraud-black-fish-skippers-are-finally-sunk-by-their-own-greed-1-2137835

The reported prosecutions are too numerous to bother listing. The infractions of marine conservation zones are equally an appalling record of an industry with no morals or regards for the law. And I haven't even bothered to think about the weekend unlicensed crowd...with their gillnets and cockle boats.

The simple truth is that it has been going on for years. Landing undeclared quota catches in Norway was another part of their criminal activity.
One only has to research the RN fishery protection records to see the number of notices served on our own boats (ignore for a moment the thieving foreigners) to realise that commercial fishermen are nothing better than water-pikeys. The odd bad apple...no way. They take what they can get away with and operate in a system that is virtually un-policed.

What confidence should I have in the future of fish stocks around the Solent and Isle of Wight, the wider south coast or indeed the UK....I would be naïve in the extreme to suppose that things will improve.

My boat sits on a trailer at the moment, in need of an engine and trim tabs. The cost of these will run to say £6,000 to £10,000. I will put £100 in fuel on the boat and steam out....to catch what...a few doggies and some small congers. If I am lucky I may get a 5Lb bass, in the winter I can look forward to a handful of juvenile cod. Tell me the £15-£20K I have invested in my passion is worth while .....when the fish I would so dearly love to catch have long since gone; to fill the pockets of the greedy and the mouths of the un-needy

[iknowagoodplaice]

Jan 18, 2015 0:24:46 GMT bleth said:

now who is being patronising ?

nothing muddled about my post

Perhaps downright incoherent would be a better description. You typically respond with a lot of aggressive nonsense, like the ludicrous stuff about the AT's income. Where's your evidence? as the dim WSFers like to say, not actually understanding the meaning of the word. I listed the main sources of its income. Didn't you read it?

Jan 18, 2015 0:24:46 GMT bleth said:

I have no problem with AT being a company . my problem is that it is funded to the tune of £1.1m approx. of taxpayers money .

how much time I spend on wsf or anywhere else is frankly none of your business .

oh and your pal from Rochester sends his regards

I couldn't care less what you do with your time. But you do sound like you spend plenty there.
That person a friend of yours? Is it you by any chance?

Sunny
Good post. You've got more energy than me.

[scorpion]

Things are happening the EU are to ban trawling for Bass plus other measures in the pipeline which still have to be negotiated.

more info here www.iowat.co.uk/index.php/home/news

[gosling]

Jan 20, 2015 8:43:39 GMT scorpion said:

Things are happening the EU are to ban trawling for Bass plus other measures in the pipeline which still have to be negotiated.

more info here www.iowat.co.uk/index.php/home/news

Incudes "measures to manage recreational fishing". Presumably bag limits, hopefully increased minimum size limits.

Just wonder how these measures will be policed if introduced. Can't quite imagine some official struggling down Whale Chine to check on a few anglers, or the same official waiting for hours for those anglers to come back up.

[Purple]

And just what constitutes a "bag limit" in a competition scenario ?

This is something that's been bugging me for a while ........

Either we / they have a catch and release policy (presumably with pics) - or it's a "kill what you catch to get it to the weigh in" - with the inevitable carnage involved.

I can't help thinking that we (RSA's) seriously need to re-visit the whole "competition" thing.

Maybe it will be a case of having said competitions on a specific beach, with an attendant "adjudicator" on hand - the only really fair way of practicing catch and release on a competition basis.

Like I say - it's been bugging me for a while ........

I recently saw a pic from a charter boat with all aboard proudly holding up their Bass catch - two each (fair play to the skipper) - 16 Bass - and not one of them over the 2 lb mark.

[Sunny]

Comps could be based on bass length and not weight. That way a measure-of-the-day could be handed out at the start and photos of fish shown at the 'weigh-in'. The fact that your bass is an ounce bigger than the next one is not the end of the world.

A measure of millimetres would be fine enough to determine who has won.

You could vary that by allowing only fish over 5Lb to the weigh-in, all others must be photographed. That would limit the potential for lots of juvenile fish being unduly 'bumped-off', simply to satisfy the weigh-in.

There are ways around the problem I think that would go some way to satisfying all parties

[bleth]

£1.1 m of the AT income for the 15 months ending 31/03/2014 was derived from grants received from NE and SE. DEFRA is a branch of NE . total income for the period was £1.6m
coincidently , the AT wages bill for the same period was a similar amount . £1.1m)

Sunny , the examples yo offer for black fish landings are 10 years old . things have changed -a lot. there will allways be illegal activity where there is money to be made ,but to paint a picture where c/fs are a bunch of rogues is arrant nonsense

fish catches as you describe were not a daily occurrence but yes , things were better before we lost our 12 mile limit . but they still are possible . talk to Steve who runs Deep Blue out of Eastbourne . I watched my pal land a 15 and a 20lb cod in successive drops on my boat a couple of years ago -and we had 1/2 a doz smaller ones to go with them .just 2 miles off seaford head . another mate and myself had 95lb just 1/2 mile off the head .

you need a new engine & trim tabs would suggest you left it on a mooring while in foreign climes .well whatever ,but maintenance is the key.

i'm still waiting for you to back up your claims of c/fs among the mods on wsf .................

anyway , i'm bored now .i'll pop back in a day or two