Different Rigs,,load of rubbish

[theoldfart2]

I have touched on this before, but I have just taken Monty for his evening  constitutional and watched several Nippers fishing.

Now all of them had rod rests ( bad idea for fishing  because by the time you see the bite you have missed it, far better to hold your rod) but allowing for that, they all had different 'Rigs' to catch the fish they were after.

They really believed that by putting these concoctions of beads ,plastic,bits of metal and swivels that it would enhance their chance of catching a fish!

Hello!!! Where are you lot coming from on this rig issue?

Fact, the water is thicker than a Ghurkrs foreskin  at the moment after the storms, so how the hell can the fish see what type of Rig is on the bottom?

I have always fished with a hook ,swivel, and weight running up the line,what do they call it ? A running ledger or some such ,and that is all you will ever need.

Fish trace their food by smell or movement, it doesn't matter a Tinkers Cuss what 'Rig' you have out.

At the end of the day it's a worm, or bit of fish on a hook.

Most anglers fish at night, and off the beach .

Most of them agree that a dark night is better, so how can a rig make a difference?

To me it's like the 'Emperors Clothes , your told it works so you buy into it.

All this rig for that fish, rig for this fish, your all sucked into it! It's just to pump up the pages of the Angling Monthly's and keep the tackle shops in business . 

I will guarantee that you will catch as much with a running ledger as. You will with any other type of rig.

Big hooks with heavy line for big fish, small hooks with light line for the Sole etc.

Its not Rocket science , work it out!

I would really appreciate it if anyone could reply to this thread and put forward a LOGICAL argument, as to why different Rigs will give you a better chance of catching fish on a dark night in murky water!

Prove me wrong, but I doubt you can.

And saying that 'I caught 20 Bass on such a rig'  doesn't count, because if you had used a 'Running ledger' you would have caught 21.

TOF 

[iknowagoodplaice]

I must say I am naturally sceptical about all fishing theories and contraptions. I'm a lifelong angler though relatively new to sea fishing. It is certainly true that some end tackles are more effective, and I have found this when I used to boat fish. It's true of fresh water, though distinguishing between chance and effect is not easy.

Sea rigs for the beach seem to boil down to two basic patterns - running leger and paternoster. Most rigs are variations on the paternoster. John Holden is dismissive of all the variants; he suggests tying loops into the line with snoods attached, a simple method I like to use. He thinks the fancy rigs are only good for match anglers catching small fish, though quite how this happens is unclear to me. Whether "loop" rigs, for example, with all the bits and bobs add any fish-catching efficacy I have no idea, but I doubt whether they do.

One example I can think of that makes a difference is floating beads on snoods. Keeps the bait clear of crabs, and bream are more likely to take bait off the bottom - in my experience. Otherwise my view is to keep rigs/terminal tackle simple and only add complications if there is a good reason. Most good reasons seem to be about avoiding tangles as much as finding clever ways to catch fish.

[theoldfart2]

Good reply and well put, but I think that it just re-enforces my argument that a simple running ledger is the best.

With regard to lifting the bait off the ground, we used to use corks.

Didn't work as some crabs can swim up to it.

As for all the beads on rigs, you have lost me there.

Still this thread has had over 200 hits and so far no one has put forward a reasonable argument for 'high tech' rigs and traces, so looks like I must be right,,

[Sunny]

I used to fix small blocks of polystyrene between the hook and ledger, when fishing rough ground from the rocks, after conger. The float made sure the bait stayed clear of the kelp and rocks, but was a nuisance to cast. I certainly saved me from some lost gear, which meant more conger hooked.

As to rigs for the shore and boat I swear by keeping it simple. I have tried complex rattles, blades and rigs, but have found that simple rigs work just as well and you lose less fish when they are hooked ...just my own experience.

But I think that if you are more confident with one style then you should stick with it as that is more like;ly to get results. But I do see the advantages of some of the new theories, such as head hooked ragworm....it sounds right.

I do however swear by heavy nylon traces, at least 200Lb. Guys who fish the boat with me will go as low as 50Lb and lose fish to trace wear and bite-throughs

[theoldfart2]

Allways swear by 200 lb mono traces, crimped on a clove hitch, between two and three foot long for conger /Tope etc, 

Lighter line for a smaller fish as the heavy line is used for heavy bait,ie whole Mackerel/pout.


A heavy line with a small bait does not lay properly on the sea bed and will create drag when the fish picks it up ,causing it to drop the bait. 


Fishing is about bait presentation, and the best way for that is a running ledger so it is free in the tide, not about beads, booms and Bullxxxxxx .

Just my opinion of course!!

But I would welcome yours, 

[loopy78]

The only reason i go for the "clip down" and "pulley" rigs is because of the aerodynamics - i'll try anything that can put a bit more yardage on my casting!

[snoopy54]

I agree with you OF re keeping it simple and applt running ledger whenever conditions dictate

but as my learned(ish)Nephew says,some places we fish require distance as the waters very shallow

and clip down pulley rigs give us more distance and keep the bait on but the rigs are still very

simple in design

[jojo]

1 I`d like to see you cast a running ledger with a large bait at any distance ( and before you say you never need to cast far, that`s balls )

2 What about when you want to use multiple hooks? You`ll get more fish like Bream on a few hooks slightly above the bottom than you would on a running rig. Fact.

3 What about when you want to use multiple baits at different depths ?

That`s three to be getting on with, if you need any more, give me a shout :-)

[tomstevo]

It's all about confidence, if putting a few beads on makes you feel better go for it.

[theoldfart2]

Firstly, I have never advocated multiple hooks,or multiple rods as to me you may as well go long lining. Either you fish for sport or you fish to catch fish, and please don't take it personal.

As we are on the subject, I  am dead against treble hooks, like my favourite fisherman from River Monsters is so fond of.

Second, I have allways said that at night you will always catch more at night close in than casting out.

Finally ,can't really see an argument about confidence by paying for lots of beads etc on a rig, as at the end of the day it's a worm/ bit of fish in dirty water at night.

But,, for a change we have had a fair discussion on the forum with people actually writing in their point of view and putting their case, which is democratic and what this forum is about.

And now that everyone has had their say its nice to know that I was right in the first place


TOF. PS I have been told that my young prentice George Bernosiwitzh (top man George,but don't tell him I said so) caught a 23 lb Bass recently on a running ledger, in shallow water, close in shore. I have put the location on the site before and we had 13 Bass there a couple of weeks ago. Alas the biggest was 4 lb

[bobshotter]

Yep the old running ledger for me to seldom use anything else TBH though I have to admit I do use things like split shot to keep bait down for Sole

[jojo]

Mar 7, 2014 19:07:40 GMT theoldfart2 said:

 I have allways said that at night you will always catch more at night close in than casting out.

In some places yes but what about when I want to hit a sand bar or rock feature at distance ? How am I going to do that with a running ledger ? 
Although I agree with you on most points you make on this subject, your argument for `only ever needing a running ledger` is flawed in many ways. 

[bleth]

Mar 3, 2014 6:38:44 GMT snoopy54 said:

I agree with you OF re keeping it simple and applt running ledger whenever conditions dictate

but as my learned(ish)Nephew says,some places we fish require distance as the waters very shallow

and clip down pulley rigs give us more distance and keep the bait on but the rigs are still very

simple in design

a clipped down running rig is also easy to make

[bleth]

absolutely agree TOF i almost allways use a running lead single hook (or pennel) on the boat.
occasionally i will use a running lead with a paternoster about 3 feet up when fishing for bream .i use a no/ 10 spade end for bream & flatties . lip hook almost every time - undersize fish are back in inside 10 secs.

beach fishing -single hook , running lead only .--clipped down using my special method that i would struggle to describe without photos .suffice it to say the rigs are pre tied using piece of wood as they require a high degree of accuracy with the hook lengths .
if i get requests i will attempt to show how ,but i dont think i can download pics owing to 2 many pixels on my camera.

[bleth]

Mar 15, 2014 17:06:16 GMT jojo said:

Mar 7, 2014 19:07:40 GMT theoldfart2 said:

 I have allways said that at night you will always catch more at night close in than casting out.

In some places yes but what about when I want to hit a sand bar or rock feature at distance ? How am I going to do that with a running ledger ? 
Although I agree with you on most points you make on this subject, your argument for `only ever needing a running ledger` is flawed in many ways. 

a clipped down running lead is perfectly feasible -just give the problem some thought !