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Post by olsmelly on Aug 14, 2009 21:09:47 GMT
I like making my own rods and most of my rods are self made. I used to discuss various ideas on another message board until it seemed to go bottoms up. But not to worry! I'm here now! My first thoughts have been occupying my brain cell for some months now, because I long ago noted a basic design flaw in them. That is the gap between pulley wheel and the side panels. These are just too easy for braid to become trapped in. So WHY do we use pulley wheels when we could use rollers!!!! The removal of axles does a couple of things. First it removes any trap for line. It is impossible for the line to get tangled. Second, the pressure applied to the support panels is greatly reduced. If we consider the distribution over a 5mm diameter roller, as opposed to a 2mm axle. The pressure is only 16%! Taking this into consideration, we can then contemplate the use of lightweight composites, on which to build heavy duty roller bearings! We can also use self lubricating rollers! With a roller just 3mm long and supported by 1mm plates, we are not talking excessively cumbersome mechanisms. The whole width of such rollers would be as little as 5mm. Next I would consider the effect of conventional rod bindings for rollers. A quick examination of my roller-rod shows that, at each roller, there is a stiffening point of up to 30mm. Such points of stiffening act against the natural flex of the rod blank. Whilst this is a rather esoteric point, it is one which might exercise the design purist. Use of composites for the side stiffening plates opens the opportunity for the use of high tensile fabric strainers to be wrapped around the blank and bonded to the sides of the roller unit, doing away with those vulnerable silk bindings. It also means I am a step nearer to build ing my own boat rods completely from scratch! And cost? I reckon the materials would come in at somewhere between 5 and 12p per PROTOTYPE roller! (I even have potential suppliers)
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Post by sailorboyrob on Aug 15, 2009 4:42:05 GMT
I have thought about the roller problem a few times myself and come up with an even more simple and effective solution. Rings! Never had my braid caught down the side of a good fugi BNHG they dont get gummed up with salt and mackeral scales etc and require very little maintenance! I think fitting a roller bearing type arrangement would just end up getting siezed up when used in the environment that you will be sujecting it to! Nice idea though!
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Post by olsmelly on Aug 15, 2009 14:16:46 GMT
The problem with rings and braid is that you need very expensive inners, due to the erosion from the braid. Whilst this is not too much of a problem in lighter applications, it becomes one under heavy loads, like those encountered in deep wreck and big specimen fishing. An inadvertently chipped ring will soon stuff the braid. I've had to upgrade all my rings for braid and that was bloody expensive! I always carry a roller rod on board. Although most of my fishing is done with 20lb braid and rings, on a 15-30lb rated rod blank. I have never been too impressed by the traditional roller. The newer designs are even worse. As for gumming up, that should be no problem. Using a Rockwell M 80+ grade plastic (thats bloody hard) which is self lubricating, there will be no issues with corrosion, or freezing. I am looking at Nylon6, or Tufnol; both proven materials, used in heavy automotive bearings. A 6mm roller, machined to a depth of 1/2mm and 1mm width, will minimise the incidence of friction with the side bearing flanges under pressure. It will also reduce bearing pressures to about 11% of conventional pulley wheels. To quantify that, the conventional lateral roller stresses, due to a 200lb skate can be around 12lb/sq.mm. That reduces to 1.32lb/sq.mm using a 6mm roller. That fits in well with the use of a 1mm tufnol, or acetol mounting flange. Both will easily support several hundred pounds, are lightweight and uncorrodable. Stiffened and supported by another 1mm of carbon fibre, you have something effectively bullet-proof and indestructible........... and almost totally maintenance free! Of course you don't need to go to that sort of overkill. Acetol is quite strong enough and will bond together very easily and permanently. ........and above all........ ITS EASY TO MAKE!......... (even for me!) BTW! 3mm Tufnol sheet makes excellent Scarborough reels!
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Post by sailorboyrob on Aug 16, 2009 4:46:12 GMT
Give it a go mate. I will be interested in seeing if it works or not. From what I understand you are planning to machine a (presumably) stainless 6mm roller down to a nominal 6mm diameter with a step in each end 1mm long down to 5mm diameter. This will ride on plastic supports either side. If you intend to make the roller from plastic I cant see it working im afraid. I dont know of any plastic that will dissipate the heat generated by the braid running across it quickly enough to prevent it softening and being cut by the braid. Too add to your design the roller could run on sealed bearings housed in the plastic supports, this would do away with the problem of lubrication and reduce the need to machine and keep a perfectly polished surface on the roller and supports.
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Post by olsmelly on Aug 16, 2009 11:17:37 GMT
Sorry! My description of the roller is obviously unclear. The idea is to use hard plastic for the roller: Tufnol, Nylon6, or Acetol. The flanges will be made of similar plastics. All these are used in automotive bearings and have the mechanical strength, as well as a perfectly acceptable Rockwell M rating (hardness). This will eliminate corrosion and, since these materials are self lubricating; maintenance. However, I shall be examining the prudence of silicon packing at the ends of the roller, which will eliminate salt ingress and crystallisation. The roller itself will be a simple 6mm affair with a 0.5mm deep groove at the centre. This will provide a centering channel under load conditions. I envisage a composite bond to the blank, which will be much stronger and permanent than the conventional silk whipping. Because of the high tensile strength of composite rovings, the bondings will be much narrower than conventional whippings. This will minimise the localised stiffening of the blank, due to the rigidity of current whippings. I am totally confident that the idea will work. The only issue for me is one of cosmetic design. My costing of the prototype materials comes in at as little as £10.00 for 120 examples. That alone makes the idea worth pursuing. 8 1/2p per item, retail, sounds very reasonable; bearing in mind that, wholesale costs would be as little as 4p!
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Post by phish on Aug 16, 2009 11:18:08 GMT
IMHO a rod for UK fishing needs rollers like a fish needs a bicycle
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Post by sailorboyrob on Aug 16, 2009 11:26:09 GMT
I`ll be interested in seeing the finnished product! Let me know how you get on.
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Post by olsmelly on Aug 16, 2009 13:43:16 GMT
I upload a conceptual graphic but these boards don't seem to accommodate them.
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Post by olsmelly on Sept 30, 2009 12:28:33 GMT
While sourcing materials for the electric booby, I came across some very reasonably priced carbon fibre tube and sheet in our local modelling shop.
We are talking untra-lightweight and very very strong.
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