TOF. Banned?

[iknowagoodplaice]

May 18, 2013 8:56:08 GMT bleth said:

ive read some of the most contentious threads on wsf & they have all flared up, simmered for a while & commonsense has prevailed . point is wsf is lively & entertaining .& i,ll bet most on this site also log on to wsf
Bully has over 200 replies on his rebuild project& nothing nasty anywhere but people are interested.

I wouldn't call WSF a good example of how to run a forum. There are some good people there but there are also a lot of oafs who bully and bluster there way through - with plenty of personal abuse for good measure, especially with a crowd of their own behind them. Unfortunately, many of the mods are as bad, which may be why offensive posts are not taken down. Instead they get vindictive with people they don't like.

Most forums are a bit too sensitive to argument though. Still, a tricky one to police perhaps - anything for a quiet life?

[bleth]

hi iknowagoodplaice

maybe i,m thicker skinned than some . i hav,nt seen much evidence of bullying etc. on wsf i,ve seen a bit of leg pulling , but so what?

i would rather you,d replied to my post on marine survey than TOF
as you were the one who "bullied" me into completing the thing in the 1st place.

maybe you will now?
Dave

[iknowagoodplaice]

WSF contains far worse things than leg-pulling, as I think many on this site will have witnessed.

Marine survey: I just suggested it would be a good idea to; no coercion involved. I did so, though without any certainty we would see any great progress. The problem, as ever, is over who wields the power, and today, more than ever, it is economic interests. But we must do what we can.

[Sunny]

May 18, 2013 8:56:08 GMT bleth said:

totally agree with you jellybelly
ive read all of TOFs posts close on 200 all entertaining many thought provoking and some pure gold fishing info .

but the other prob regarding b&b i think is the desire among mods to avoid the rough & tumble of peoples, opinions.as soon as a thread gets contentious posts get deleted etc and i just dont think this is healthy.
no i dont want to see personal abuse , but the members will say if someone is out of order , i have refrained on occasions from comments that may annoy , but really why should i ? this is a predominately adult site . but opinions, even misguided ones have their value---- & what happened to free speech ?

ive read some of the most contentious threads on wsf & they have all flared up, simmered for a while & commonsense has prevailed . point is wsf is lively & entertaining .& i,ll bet most on this site also log on to wsf
Bully has over 200 replies on his rebuild project& nothing nasty anywhere but people are interested.

no we dont need another wsf but chill out you guys and we might get some more participation otherwise, whats the point of it all?

Dave
oh well , thats me banned!

Not sure how we got to this subject - again - but I don't agree. If guys wish to have an argument then go on WSF.

Freedom of speech is a myth anyway...there is no such thing, not even in the USA. We all have to be accountable for our words and actions (and in-actions for that matter).

Allowing a free-for-all on forums is a licence for keyboard heros to cause trouble...and they boy do they do it.

We have facebook and WSF for arguments and nasty vile behaviour and B&B for anglers to come and avoid such behaviour.

I'm not saying that you do not agree with this policy, but as boring as it may seem that is the policy.
I would rather keep the site as a place where there are no nasty arguments (and thus boring) than be part of something that is akin to WSF. There are many that enjoy the crap that goes on on that site and that is fine, we each go on WSF for something different.

I want B&B to remain a friendly site. We can debate stuff, which is what TOF and many others have instigated in the past, but it is within the rules. If folks start to allow emotion to rule their keyboard and their posts are offensive, then they get deleted and in the extreme cases they get banned. We are all adults....yes.....which means we should understand where the line is between grown-up behaviour and WSF (for example).

The Commercial Fishermen (sorry Mods) on there are quick to stamp on anyone criticising the exploitation of our seas by water-pikeys, but see how slow they are to react (if at all) to threats of violence or gang bullying (by their cronies).

To compare us to WSF and suggest that we could benefit from a dose (good description) of what they have is to forget all of the great qualities this forum has......as small, by comparison, as we may be.

Me, I go there to pitch battle with the commies and the cretins who follow them. I come here to talk angling, amongst other anglers. We should all be striving to get the best out of this forum by putting in our best....just my opinion (freedom of speech an-all)

I have now - hopefully - resolved the TOF account issue, so I'm sure we will all await his nonesense and utterings with the manner in which they were intended.....looking forward to it

Tight thingys
Nick

[bleth]

good morning nick.

i have waited a few days before replying too you , to ensure i give a balanced & measured reply to your comments . i have now reached that happy & enlightened state .

at no time have i suggested b&b attempts to emulate wsf. i did not use the word "dose" .i did say "we do not need another wsf"

what i also did was expand on jellybelly,s excellent post and suggest a reason for the low number of posts on this site.
i looked at the new post page last night and there are 29 posts there. the only one that can be said to have produced any sort of fishing discussion is one on mackerel.
worse than that, it has taken 6 weeks to accumulate the miserable total of 29 posts.3 of which were mine relating to a boat for sale and therefore of no consequence to any angling discussion .
and still nobody has replied to any of jellybelly,s points.

what got us here again was you! and your obsession with wsf.
i made no comment to suggest we indulged in argument of any description , least of all one relating to wsf.

you, however,indulged in a tirade about vile behaviour,crap,water pikeys,commies and worst of all, cretins.
who do you think you are to label thousands of fishermen of all persuasions in this way??
you have demeaned yourself to a level less than the very people you complain about by using highly insulting language,at least as bad as any on wsf. you, who should know better. " let he who is without sin cast the first stone " .i,d keep away from shingle beaches if i were you Nick.

you could try to get on Britains got talent.as you appear to be a contortionist with a head for heights
or to put it another way_living in an ivory tower with your head up your arse.

hopefully a few members see this b4 its deleted.

Dave

[Sunny]

Hilarious Bleth, no I'll happily leave your post up.

I make no secret of two things:

1. I don't like the way that commercial fishermen have infiltrated and now run WSF

2. I don't like what commercial fishermen stand for - period - which is selfish greed at the expense of a sustainable sea.

I'm not obsessed with WSF, on the contrary (I have not been on there for ages), but I am obsessed with my passion for angling and the drastic reduction in fish that I have seen occur in my lifetime.

I openly criticise and vilify those who apologise for the behaviour of the 'honest' Commie, or as I prefer to call them 'water-pikeys'.

Lets be clear, I have met plenty of commercial fishermen and as people I even liked them; what is there to hate or dislike in people ?!!
What I hate is the wholesale short-sighted slaughter, fuelled by greed that is the very nature of our beloved Commercial Fishing Industry.

Ask yourself two questions:

1. Why is it that guys are spending countless hours on the beach and catching next to nothing, in what used to be one of the richest marine environments in the world ?

2. How many times must we read in the news that another fleet, port, or whole district has been caught involved in illegal landings, illegal net sizes and all of the other infractions to convince the 'apologists' that commercial fishermen are ...well....simply…..water-pikeys !
They don’t swindle old-ladies out of their savings for trimming that hedge or replacing a roof tile, burgle houses, steal copper from our railway power systems (all at great expense to the hard-working public)….. no….but what they do to our seabed, marine eco-systems, fish stock and whole marine environment is little short of criminal. They hide behind ‘quotas’ they claim the right of generations, they claim they are hard done by, they claim they are just feeding their families…..all myth and nonsense. I watched a programme on them once…the guy arrived back in port, climbed in to his brand new BMW X5 and went home to his 5+ bedroom house. In his leisure time he takes out his spanking-new 40ft cabin cruiser….poor hard-done-by chap…yeah right !
Obviously they are not all making that much money from it…obviously. But they don’t have some god given right to fish in the sea and IMO they should be made to get land based work like the rest of us; they should not ever be allowed to destroy the little fish stock we have left for their benefit

Then there was the Irish skipper moaning about the piffling fine he had received for being caught involved in illegal landings…. My heart went out to him !
The word is illegal and they get caught so often it is truly criminal. If you get the time go spend some time on the Royal Navy Fishery Protection website and look at their enforcement records. Water-Pikeys is too nice a phrase to describe them and their criminal activity.

Then there will be the deflection arguments…Its not us, it’s the over 10s, or its not us its foreign boats, it’s the Spanish or the French, or the odd bad apple, or the unlicenced netters…their list of deflection is endless. The best ones…my favourites:

1. Fish stocks have rebounded and there are tons of fish
2. Marine Scientists don’t know anything about the sea
3. Its global warming
4. Its algal blooms

All I know is that I don’t believe their horse-poo excuses, or their apologists and nor am I even remotely worried about calling their supporters cretins. I would have thought the term wholly appropriate and valid in the context it was said….I could use ‘nitwits’ if that is less confrontational and more apologist

Interestingly, TOF left because he posted a similar set of observations and things kicked off. We (anglers) seem to be incapable of debating this subject without resorting to emotional attacks on each other.

If you have a vested interest in Commercial Fishing then declare it....be proud of your connection and stand by it. Post your flag

Oh, 'dose' was my choice of words. I thought it apt to describe what WSF has
I joined that forum to research on mullet catches and out of curiosity; it does attract attention for its contentious threatening arguments (as I had heard). Every mention I made of fish stock drops, gillnets and so on was jumped on by the Mods and either deleted, or moved to the hilariously named 'Conservation' area; where they await to attck you and anyone else that disagrees with the conduct of commercial fishermen and their industry.

I've no doubt that the odd Commie has infiltrated this forum...its not difficult to join (most of the time !). But if they stick their head above their trench I will ban them. This is a forum for anglers only. I don't ask that anyone adopt my dislike of their vile greedy industry, and under most circumstances I would not be tempted to write about them on here.

We do not get as many posts as you would like ?
Well the solution is not to replace them with 'adult arguments' and this is a family site, with all ages encouraged to take part. It is also a friendly site, as stated often and openly

I will return the soap-box to the cupboard now and wish you a happy angling season.

rih - you are sooooo right; you should see my walking-on-water trick
It replaced my previous impossible trick of catching fish from the beaches of England

[Sunny]

rih has left the building....rolled up his bed and moved on
His limited contribution will be sadly missed.

Meanwhile, I belive I have resolved the issue over TOF's account access....so with luck he should soon be available to take over - and do a far better job then me - of discussing the state of our fish stock

[bleth]

hi Nick

thanks for your reply

i do NOT have any commercial interests

i sympathise & agree with all the points you have mentioned, particulary the hard up commercials who keep quiet about the massive paydays some of them get and the illegal methods they use to get these catches to market

but that is not the fault of wsf .

it is the fault of DEFRA and that bunch of twerps in brussels and that is where i will direct my feelings when the opportunity arises

ie. MCZ workshop

thanks again for your reply . at least this time it was reasoned and properly constructed .

and i,ll shake on that if you will

Dave

[iknowagoodplaice]

I'll add my little bit. I'm inclined to agree with sunny, even if his language was a little unparliamentary, though understandable given the environmental destruction going on, to which commercial fishing is contributing a large slice.

I think bleth is out of line with his comments, which do amount to personal abuse, even a threat, which as he implies, is a deletable offence. Sunny is absolutely correct to observe that WSF is infiltrated by commercials, and they hurl their contempt and abuse at anyone who stands up to them. The short time I spent on there I only found one reasonable individual from that set, though he was tarred by alignment with his fellow mods. So, sunny has some justification for his attack on them.

I note that one of that bunch appears on another forum, but without the backing of his other cronies he is forced to be more measured. Interesting: the mob rule that develops on certain forums.

[Sunny]

Dave (Bleth) ...absolutely buddy...I don't mind a good debate and I know that we can both handle it.

iknowagoodplaice - sounds like you have experienced the same treatment that I got on WSF.

I would be clear that it has some great members and one of the mods in particular, who is a member of this forum (a non-commercial) is a fair and even-handed bloke.

But the site owner - for whatever insane reason - has allowed the commercials to infiltrate the mods to the extent that they rule the roost.
I once commented, on there, that their strategy was to be admired. They have taken a commanding position on the UK's largest angling forum/website; which I think we must all agree is a very strategic and clver move.

There can be no doubting the level of organisation and effort that Commercial Fishing will plow in to ensuring their agenda is given the loudest voice and all dissent or anti-commercial voices should be ridiculed and silenced.

You could put this to the test quite easily. Go on WSF and post up a thread on the general page, asking members to vote as to whether they think the Commercial Fishing Industry could be trusted to self-regulate ....
How long would that one be permitted to remain in the General Area ?!!!
The Commercials would instantly move it to a quiet corner....the so called Conservation page, where few normal anglers dare venture. There it would be ridiculed by the Commies and their gang of chattering hyenas, the sycophants who suck-up to them; whom I have openly called cretins etc.

I accept the accusation that I have used unparlimentary langauge
But equally I would not say my wife was driving .....
Sorry, couldn't resist that one

....Hurry up TOF; I can't keep this up for ever !!!!

[iknowagoodplaice]

I'm not even sure the commercials are that organised. They sound like a lot of incoherent playground louts. The "Conservation" forum is a comedy of malefactors, not all of whom are evidently commercials, but who seem to get caught up in the general hysteria there. Actually, looking in there recently, these birds of tarred feathers have started sniping at each other.

One can easily out-argue them ("baffle a blockhead with ease"?); but it's not about argument, just playground jeering, which of course is a waste of a sane person's time. In any case, certain mods are not above deleting comments too smart for them. Why MT allows it is beyond me. Perhaps he's one of them?

[bleth]

im off to the conservation page.

see ya later !

Dave

[Sunny]

May 24, 2013 13:30:44 GMT bleth said:

im off to the conservation page.

see ya later !

Dave

Have fun ;D

[Sunny]

May 24, 2013 11:59:58 GMT iknowagoodplaice said:

I'll add my little bit. I'm inclined to agree with sunny, even if his language was a little unparliamentary, though understandable given the environmental destruction going on, to which commercial fishing is contributing a large slice.

I think bleth is out of line with his comments, which do amount to personal abuse, even a threat, which as he implies, is a deletable offence. Sunny is absolutely correct to observe that WSF is infiltrated by commercials, and they hurl their contempt and abuse at anyone who stands up to them. The short time I spent on there I only found one reasonable individual from that set, though he was tarred by alignment with his fellow mods. So, sunny has some justification for his attack on them.

I note that one of that bunch appears on another forum, but without the backing of his other cronies he is forced to be more measured. Interesting: the mob rule that develops on certain forums.

I was stick at the in-laws one christmas - bored senseless - so I spent a few days on the hilariously named Conservation page....brawling with them.

If you look list the names of the main pack and then research their posts, looking for catch reports you will find them to be fairly lack-lustre or completely empty. So I posted up a table of Anglers and Danglers.... that stirred them up I can tell you... great fun.

One of the mods is currently a charter skipper (ex-commie); tiger something or other. I went to his website and checked out the picture gallery.....poor would not adequately describe it. I did quizz him why on what used to be one of the richest pieces of sea anywhere in the world could he no longer get his customers on the fish. Seemed like a fair and reasonable question to me !

But, since returning to civilisation I cannot waste the time on them.

[snoopy54]

Nick - I put up a blog last week re a commie dropping his nets five yards out - down East Cowes last weekend - I enquired as to whether this was even legal - Ive had 36 views and no replies as to the question - Im going to delete the blog now as nobody seems intrested in commenting