The EU Sucks!

[seafisher065]

Is it just me or do we all feel the same? Being a fully paid member of the Angling Trust and correct me if I am wrong as I happy to be proven wrong. But isnt the Angling Trust asking us as shore and boat anglers to police ourselves and increase the size of the bass we take to 45cm but ideally 48cm to help recover stocks in UK waters?

This will give at least 2 full spawning cycles for the mature females and help populate the species back in not only our Solent waters but the UK waters.

I dont know what Marine Biologists they are using to base this decision on but i am guessing they got their diploma's from Fred's Internet University (at a cost of a mere £200 and/or Euro equivilent). Being a sea angler looking to stick it right back to the EU for yet another full of sh*te decision because the commercial fishing lobbyists greased the wheels to get the decision they wanted for their own selfish greed and screw everyone else.

What will they do when the bass and other species like mackerel (as seen this summer) are gone from our waters and the commercial fishermen are unemployed tell the UK we have to pay more tax money to the EU so they can pay fisherman not to fish much like they pay farmers not to farm.

Where will it end unless we make a stand as "One Voice". Sorry getting off my soap box just tired of getting screwed over by a bunch of Eurpeon politicians (especially those with no coastlines) that think fish only come from restaraunts and there is an endless supply and no consequences to idiotic decisions. God they suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[theoldfart2]

A few years ago we were living in a different country, in Europe.

On New Year's Day the No Smoking Rule came out.

We went to our local bar, and there were No Smoking  signs all over the walls and doors.

We went in and the owner was smoking behind the bar.

Two coppers were at the bar smoking.

Everyone else was smoking.

We ordered our drinks, sat down and pointed to the signs.

'What's with the nonsmoking signs?' I asked Spiro (The Owner)

'oh ,just some Euro reg that's come out, I was told to put the signs up, so I put them up.'
 
Basically, everyone in that country ignored that and other EU regulations, ie fishing.

It only the English that follow any rule the EU bring out.

As far as this Old Fart is concerned as soon as we get out of that mess the better, but that is political and shouldn't be on this site.

Or should it?

[Purple]

I can’t help feeling that shore, or even the casual boat caught fish numbers (or sizes) are the least of the problems along this coastline – when you compare those figures to the trawler catches along the same stretch.

I’m up against it as much as anyone on the shore. Sure, the fish numbers (some of them anyway), mean more and more blanks – the legitimate catch sizes are a crock anyway, we all end up each taking what we want - seen it happen repeatedly.

Difficult times for all, especially for those struggling to make a living from it - but for us, it’s just sport.

It will take a while (given the politics of the situation) to sort itself out – but it will gradually get better.

It will never be fair, given the reluctance of the Royal Navy to open fire on the foreign scum invading our fishing grounds. Or the reluctance of the Excise men to open fire on anyone with an undersize fish walking home after a long night on the beach for that matter ……

Yeah, sure – I know what I would do – but that that’s the simple answer – and, ultimately, would solve nothing. The age of the “Privateer” - the private police of the seas, is over.

We live in an imperfect world – get used to it – twas ever thus ……..

What confuses me, is why the OP expected the "Angling Trust" to exert any power over the EU fisheries policy ?

I just thank God that we are still allowed to smoke whist fishing .........

[theoldfart2]

Purple, me old sparing partner.

Glad to see you still put a logical and well thought out point of view on the forum.

Pity a few others couldn't follow your example.

However..... As far as I know there is no such thing as undersize fish caught on a rod and line by Anglers or ( and I maybe wrong here) by commercial fishermen, so summery executions by the Excise Officers may have to be put on hold.

Naturally I would be fully in favour of such actions, as I only use big baits,with big hooks, to catch big fish!!!

Mrs OldFart says I am compensating for having a small worm, but women can be spiteful at times 

Secondly, a new EU survey about to be published has shown that Anglers smoking can cause passive gill cancer in fish
and next year all smoking on beaches will be banned.

But don't worry as 'over arm' casting will be banned by Health and Safety so everyone will be using drop lines. (This ,believe it or not has been suggested and certainly is in force on piers in the States)


Happy new year, glad your putting your posts back on, I like a good, well thought out argument, with people putting their opinions, facts and points of view in an intelligent way.

So unlike certain other sites that I once posted on.

Failing to 'Tow the party line' that everything is wonderful in the Oceans and there is no overfishing, brands you as a Trouble Maker and they remove your posts.

Forums need people like you who can put a decent ,well constructive argument on them

Only that way can everyone weigh up the arguments from both sides and then agree that I was right in the first place

Very best wishes for the New Year to you and all who visit this forum.

TOF

[iknowagoodplaice]

I must disagree with some of the above remarks. It's commonplace on fishing forums to slag off biologists. There's no point - they generally know their stuff but hold limited sway in the construction of fisheries policy. The increased size limit to allow bass to spawn more often makes sense; the life cycle is well known.

Similarly, throwing abuse at the EU and, worse "foreign scum", will get us nowhere. But it will get us ignored where it matters. The AT is the best we've got at present. I don't know who else can lobby for sea anglers' interests. Commercial fishermen are the biggest threat to fish stocks, but anglers take a pretty large proportion of the total catch (see link elsewhere on this site) and have an obligation to help protect stocks too. Those who take undersized fish are not doing their bit. That attitude is part of the problem, one I find difficult to see any solution to.

[Purple]

The phrase “foreign scum” was meant to be tongue in cheek, though throwing abuse at the EU seems fair enough.

The EU sets the policy, and the recreational anglers suffer because of it – not to mention the countries that blatantly ignore all advice. In my opinion, we could back off all fishing off our shores until the fish stocks recover, but meanwhile, that recovery will make it more attractive to the non-EU factory ships which will put us all back to square one.

Whilst we can argue that recent technological advances in net design used by the EU trawlers (and I’m including the UK in this) will help the situation, the reality is that new nets costs thousands, and few of the trawlers can afford them at present. The only way a trawler skipper can make money is to catch fish – show me a rich one, and I’ll show you someone who’s cheating on something or another – after all, if it was that easy they’d all be rolling in it.

The sad truth is that the whole industry is suffering, with little or nothing to invest in new gear. On the other hand, the recreational angling industry is booming, with lots of small independent outlets selling stuff. If one of those outlets goes down, it will happen without so much of a ripple – where-as if one of our (or in another country for that matter) fishing fleets goes down, the entire tradition of a village/town/city is absolutely finished.

Now – put yourself in a politicians shoes ……… who would you choose ?

Whilst the Angling Trust undoubtedly does its best to lobby those politicians, in the big scheme of things, no-body is listening.

Yes, we need to “police” ourselves, and like it or not, the idea of “Marine Conservation Areas” may help. Even if it only means that some “no-go” areas (for whatever reason) keep the trawlers off. But the best thing the Angling Trust can be lobbied about is to allow recreational fishing in those areas to continue, either as catch and release, or by controlled catch sizes.

That makes the whole issue an internal one, and leaves the EU policy makers out of the equation.

We, as recreational anglers, do not have (anything other than token) representation in Brussels.

And yes – it sucks – but the sooner we accept what we can do, and cannot achieve, the sooner we can make improvements.

The clue is in the name – “Anglers Trust” – not “Trawlers Trust”. Encourage the trust to do what they can for our shores, and leave the EU to the politicians. It remains in the EU's interest to manage sustainable fishing - they'll get there in the end.

Oh yeah – and while we’re at it – happy new year …….

[theoldfart2]

For once I totally agree with Purple.

For years UK fishing stocks have been plundered by the EU, and or EU fishing boats that totally ignored sizes ,quotas, net sizes etc.

This unfortunately has been a fact, and in my opinion, anyone who takes undersize fish for a quick commercial buck,are the scum of the earth.

I rate these people alongside the 'animals' who catch Sharks, cut off the fins and throw the live Sharks back to die.

In this country we are FORCED to be sooooo, politically correct, that it us untrue.

A presenter on a car program notes that a bridge has an incline on it , and he is threatened with the sack.

Unfortunately ,95 percent of the world don't give a damn, 

I have lived all over the world and don't give a hoot about someone's colour, religion or beliefs.

You get nice people, bad people and sadly far too many Scumbags.

However, if you mention this , you are called racist  ,Homophobic anti Europe etc etc

The British are expected to roll over and take all the crap that everyone throws on us.

Its fine for them to plunder all our fish, and no one says a word but call them a bad name and you are  dragged over the coals.

No wonder there is no fish around our coasts

[iknowagoodplaice]

Unfortunately anglers are at the end of the queue for the ears of policy makers. It is true that some European countries disregard the laws, which in any case have not worked very well. But British boats catch fish in large numbers too. We have no choice other than to accept the EU is going to make these policies and anglers have to make their voices heard as best they can.

I hope your optimism is justified purple. Sometimes I think hope is all we have.

[Purple]

It comes and goes in cycles – finds its own level …… faith is all we have, it keeps us fishing - same as the trawlers.

Once a fisherman – always a fisherman – that hunger for the “chance” never goes away …….

We (recreational) have to move to find the fish, those tucked away hard to get to spots that sometimes pay dividends. The fish after all, (most of them), are free to roam, and I think by claiming them as our own is missing this point. They are there for the taking – all you have to do is find them – same as everybody else (including the trawlers).

I was up in Tenby last year (like you do), and found myself (after a short walk and a steep drop), on Barafundle beach. Quite by accident – honest gov – I happened to have my spinning gear with me, much to the surprise of her indoors …….. no idea how it got there. Started spinning for Bass, big plugs, an ounce or so ……..

The Mackeral were following the lure in, often in pairs, right to my feet. They weren’t feeding in shoals, just randomly swimming about in the bay, could see them splashing about all over the place.

Now, if I’d had smaller spinners, and been after the Mackeral, I could have cleaned up. But I wasn’t. Figured there was no point in hauling a bucket load up the hill on the way back, only to eat a quarter of them that evening. If I’d have found the Bass, a couple of them would have done nicely.

I walked back up that hill, glanced back down into the bay, and saw literally a hundred of them scattered about, going about their business.

I just quietly smiled at the sight, and ignored the protestations from my wife that I never seemed to catch anything when fishing,

Sometimes – just sometimes – it’s the knowing that counts. Knowing that I had consciously chosen to leave them alone - just happy to share the bay with them that day, each of us hunting only our chosen species …….

I guess that’s the difference between us and the trawlers, we can go where the trawlers can’t, and we can make the choices that they can’t. But in the end, we’re both human – and, ultimately, it’s that humanity that gives me hope.

One day, the trawlers will also be (more) able to choose what they catch – to listen to the marine biologists. There are any number of trawler progs on the TV if you care to watch them, and to date, I have not seen one yet that doesn’t portray the disappointment at having to throw back dead fish into the water because they were “over quota”. And this is in real time, camera in your face, no time to think. Hard men, disgusted at the waste of life – not just of the waste of potential profit.

Even trawlermen have feelings – same as you and me.

That’s what gives me hope - now all we need is a little bit of faith – and a whole heap of patience …..

[walker]

each of us hunting only our chosen species …….

Lovely, and an excellent post

[scorpion]

Jan 1, 2015 15:24:26 GMT Purple said:

Whilst the Angling Trust undoubtedly does its best to lobby those politicians, in the big scheme of things, no-body is listening.

Yes, we need to “police” ourselves, and like it or not, the idea of “Marine Conservation Areas” may help. Even if it only means that some “no-go” areas (for whatever reason) keep the trawlers off. But the best thing the Angling Trust can be lobbied about is to allow recreational fishing in those areas to continue, either as catch and release, or by controlled catch sizes.

That makes the whole issue an internal one, and leaves the EU policy makers out of the equation.

We, as recreational anglers, do not have (anything other than token) representation in Brussels.

And yes – it sucks – but the sooner we accept what we can do, and cannot achieve, the sooner we can make improvements.

The clue is in the name – “Anglers Trust” – not “Trawlers Trust”. Encourage the trust to do what they can for our shores, and leave the EU to the politicians. It remains in the EU's interest to manage sustainable fishing - they'll get there in the end.

Oh yeah – and while we’re at it – happy new year …….

Well put

The Angling Trust does need your support, and the more people that are seen to behind the Angling Trust the more notice ministers are likely to take.

Register on our site, post questions and comments on our forum so that all these officials can see the support the Angling Trust has.

www.iowat.co.uk
You don't have to be from the island to register.

The Southern Inshore Fisheries Conservation Authority (SIFCA) are holding a series open consultation meetings along the south coast.
Dates and venues are listed on e SIFCA website.

www.southern-ifca.gov.uk/news

Let your views known it could make a difference. The more anglers attend the better the chance of getting something done.

[bleth]

why would any RSA hand over £25 pa to the AT when they cant even have one person to represent the RSA.

add that to the ridiculous way their policies lurch from one headline grabber to the next with the hope of attracting new members I reckon any rsa who hands their hardearned to this shower needs their bumps felt .

remember the AT is a business reporting to companies house .it aint there for our benefit .

[iknowagoodplaice]

The AT does represent sea angling. Whose benefit is it for if not angling's? From its website it is clear there is a trading aspect to AT (one way to raise money), hence its registration as a company. WSF is also a registered company, and arguably of a lot less benefit to sea angling than the AT.

[Purple]

I think that there is an inevitable cross over between commercial and recreational as far as the (IOW) AT goes – they go hand in hand after all. Looking at the IOW site, it has yet to “mature” – check out the forum – deserted. And if they do want to start the forum going, they could do a lot worse than the moderators introducing themselves on there – the only detail on the site is clouded in registered company “gobbledegook” …….

There is some detail about by-laws, mostly about bait digging – the preservation of sea grass beds et al – plus (from memory) the continuation of RSA from Chale beach MCZ, however the proposed MCZ at Chale has now been dropped, so that one was a “flash in the pan”.

They’ll get their chance to prove themselves – albeit on a local level – which is all we can expect them to do ……. Or would you rather leave the Island completely undefended ?

As for WSF – where to start …….

Well – for a kick off – the membership is hugely diverse – and has greater numbers than on here. If that means a few “trawler boys” get in on the action, then so be it. The whole “politics” of the situation mean that unbalanced posts often get defended – vigorously ! – and in fairness, by both sides.

Anyone for democracy ?

Yes, they have a tendency to shut down the more antagonistic political threads, mostly for the sake of sanity – but then politics are not meant to be discussed on here either – (and it does the mods on here great credit that this thread has got this far).

But the other (and perhaps greater) side of WSF is the RSA reports, a resource that far outweighs the irritation of the political threads. It may be that WSF is a company – but a company that charges nothing for membership – nothing to its many contributors – and the fact that you can go on there and research various fishing marks in real time (without even joining) has to be a good thing.

In my opinion, the fact remains that we need both sites (and this one) – where else can you dance around your hand bags like this ?

[scorpion]

Jan 13, 2015 17:33:48 GMT Purple said:

Looking at the IOW site, it has yet to “mature” – check out the forum – deserted. And if they do want to start the forum going, they could do a lot worse than the moderators introducing themselves on there

Point taken